34: KINDS OF KINDNESS PART 2 - Cults Are Bad!

We finish our discussion on 2024's KINDS OF KINDNESS. Producer Chris Register gives us all the low down on the symbolism in the film.  

Let us know what you think of this movie and what you think it all means.

Tune in 2 weeks from now for EMELIA PEREZ. 

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Transcript

0:06

You do know of your hair's nice like that. Don't get it. Cut! Let it grow a little longer and you lost more weight, I think. Skinny men are the most ridiculous thing there is. And with that, moving to the third one with his arms. Mouth has a sandwich eater. Said he has a sandwich. Chris, do you want to get going? I'll do the plot on this one, too. Plot of this one. Or RMF eats the sandwich is kind of, ironically, so far away from the title of this one. It is about, the Jesse Plemons character and the Emma Stone character. They are, they are part of this kind of weird cult. And they are, they are trying to find what I guess would be called like, I don't know, a very special woman, who is, what's the what's the word that not a not a prophet? Kind of I she's a yeah. She can bring people back from a dead. So so they're like, the hunt for some prophesized woman, and, and they, Yeah, they're on the hunt for this woman, and they find a couple candidates, they test these candidates, and, in doing so, Emma Stone, Emma Stone's character, intersects with the husband and daughter that she sort of abandoned to join this cult. And they're they're kind of back and forth between the cult and these and searching for searching for the woman they're trying to find. Eventually, Emma Stone has a bit of a, a reconnection with her husband, almost a forced reconnection, in a way. And, I would say, of course. Yeah. Well, yeah, for sure. Which we'll get to, but she has a reconnection with her husband and, and then is because of that is kicked out of the cult. And then eventually she does find the, the, the, the kind of prophesies woman that they're looking for. That's the broad plot of this thing of this one. You didn't like this one? It seems like. How do you how did you feel about this piece? Well, for me, moreso, it was the pacing. This one felt like this one started. This. I started to feel the length of the film. Interesting. Like, do you think it was because the film was so long and all of us. Well, yeah, right now we're at the end. It might have been a culmination, but I do feel like the first two did a very good job of like keeping you engaged throughout the entirety of it. Whereas this one, I feel like the middle starts to meander a little bit. And like in a weird way, I do think like the this third film is searching like I feel like you're searching as a viewer. She's searching, she's searching like it. The pacing follows the meandering search that like, these characters are on as well. But I think, you know, after two hours and 30 minutes, I'm like, okay, this like, we need to wrap this up. You need to wrap this up soon. I didn't I wasn't feeling that, but I also, I don't know, I could watch Emma Stone sort of do anything, but I also was just really, everything I know I was, I was into this. I think I actually liked the third one, maybe the best if I had to choose one. I was just really, it was so weird. I mean, they were all so weird, but I really, really loved every moment that they were actually at the sort of cult, and dealing with Orca and Omi and, I just want to I know we have. I just have to shout this out now. I'm thinking about it cause I might not remember in technical, but, Willem Defoe's outfit as, he's orca, right? Or is he, he's he's on his own. Yeah. Is is clutch. He's wearing this, like, dark maroon turtleneck under this orangy red windbreaker. Gray sweat pants and these, like, Charvet sandals with socks underneath him. And they were like, wait, cover. Wait, what? What's the name of those sandals? I'm not sure she knows. Nope. That's a pant, I don't know. Okay, people sandals. White people sandals. It was so perfect for, like, cult leader. And then he's like, in a red Speedo at one point with like, every. I mean, the costumes across the board were phenomenal. But there was something about Willem Dafoe as that character that I believed so much. And the like. Here again, we have sex in a very ritualistic, strange way. And also, old way, very controlled way. There were things going on with food as well, like when at the at the very end, when Emma Stone gets shut out of the cult, or I guess it wasn't the very end, but when she gets, like, shut out of the cold and she's at the gates and she is saying, no, please, like, let me come back in, I'm not. I'll sweat it out and I won't be contaminated anymore. And, Jesse Plemons character is standing in the back just eating a bowl of cereal watching her, which I was like, what the fuck is that? I know it was so good. There were so many little morsels in this one that I just really appreciated. It was a whole moment in, like the hotel where they're ordering food, right? The right. And then there's the whole thing about fish. She won't eat fish. That's. Yeah. It's like we don't ever understand if Jesse Plemons also won't eat fish. And if it's a thing across the or just her, it has to be a cool thing because, like, they are so, so the whole cult is built around water. And I think the red salt water and salt makes it like salty skin because. Oh, sure, that's what I was thinking. Sure. Because fish come from salt. So like, they like they like everything is about water with this cult. Right? Which is fascinating. And, like before you arrive back at the cult, you see that they only drink out of this giant, like, five gallon bucket of water. Just join me in a good cry into that. Like we find out later that like, is is. And I run down to phrase holy tears. Yeah. Because like, yes, they like and there's a many shots of the cult of like, people like pulling. I guess it's saltwater because they're by the ocean, right? It's like they're taking buckets of salt water and pouring into this tub, like this big pool. Yeah. And then eventually, like. Yes, only aka the two, like, cult leaders cry into it. And that's the water they all drink. Yeah. And so, like, sweat lodge to test if you're contaminated or not, but what's your content and so like and then here's and so like sex and water are parts of this because like what the what the contamination is, is that anyone having sex with anyone besides oh me oh me and AKA so like their, their bodies are these, I don't know, filters against contamination in this way because there's this big old compact, there's a big old compound of people, and everyone can only have sex with the two of them. Yes. And so that so clearly this is like, this is a cult. But what doesn't quite make sense to me about this cult is like we have the the two leaders, me and aka. But then we're but then they're searching for sort of the prophet or the like, Holy Grail. They're, they're searching for the woman who can bring back people from the dead. So then if they find her, does she become. Holier than, oh, man. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. She's she's going to be she's going to be trapped on this luxury boat. Right. I just which also was very interesting. I did love the scene where, Emma Stone is driving at the end and she's like, she's like, you're going to love the boat. The boat is so beautiful. Right before she, like, crashes into that. Yeah. What does it say? What what what is it saying that, like, she finds this woman after she's been taken out of the cult? And also. Oh, she knew about her prior to. Yeah, she never before. She's still, like, finds her after, right? Only because, her sister, who had found her while she was still in the cult and doesn't know that she's left the cult knocks on her door. Yeah, but yes, I hear you. You're saying the fact that I took it as like, the. So, like the thinking about this now, I think the why the third one did it hit as well for me is that I feel like this one is the most grounded in, like, realistic. Sure. Because the only because it's only until the end when she actually does raise someone from the dead, which is the final 30s right? That anything that is abnormal happens like cults actually exists, right? Raping of spouses actually happens. Like it's so much more grounded and visceral. And I think that's what made it feel so much more ugly to me. It's also kind of the most. Maybe that's why I liked it. That's interesting. You said, because it's also the most, ups it's also the most absurd in the way because the piece starts with them, like like investigate like, like checking out this woman to make sure she can do this. But the thing they wanted to do is try to bring this person back from the dead. So, like, it is, it is. It is the plot. Y is the most grounded of things, except the people in it believe the most absurd or the most the most fantastical things. I don't want to insert the most fantastical things. But also so many of the things that we see in this cult are like actually things that have happened in so many cults. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The details are all very realistic, unlike the middle one where it's like, this is is it feels like a metaphor. It's, it's I'm sort I know the middle ones almost sci fi to some extent. Right. Yeah. We're talking about aliens and like abduction. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. Also I mean slightly going back to that and with technical, but the way she shot at like the front door is almost like she's like backlit with like this light coming as she's entering. We're talking with the end of the second look. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Well there was another show. It's interesting. We bring up water, which I don't really think about this, that like the. So. Right. Like Amazon's character is looking for this prophesized person woman specifically. And when she finds her she finds her and a dream where she's stuck at the bottom of a pool and the women are synchronized swimmers. So again, we have water and whatnot. And, and then there's this whole plotline about how the twin. Because it's twin, Margaret. Margaret Quigley's character. Twins, in this piece, and and she tells us, Margaret Qualys to tell us a story about how when she was young, she foolishly, like a dove headfirst into an empty pool. So again, what water or lack thereof, in this case. And in this case, water. A lack of water is very dangerous. And somehow, like water is this big water and fluids is this big throughline throughout this whole thing that it's both like purity and I don't want to say safety, but like, the idea that, like, a certain liquid is safe, like a certain kind of water is safe and that like, they are again, these two cult leaders are this filter against the outside world of what is safe and what's not safe. There's also this theme in all three of like a woman's body not being her own, which I which I'm just now coming to like I this one clearly she is raped by her husband Emma Stone, this character. But in the second one, I mean, not just that though, but also the cult like. Right? Well, she's making a choice there. No one that doesn't feel like the cult actually seems pretty chill. And as far as like. Yeah, because they because also Jesse Plemons, when they come back, says the thing of like they, you know, they check in with oh mean aka check in with them and, and he says, yeah, I'm doing good, but I'm actually pretty horny, you know. So there was no that didn't feel like forced. I mean, that was like with miracle tonight, right? It felt like it felt like, no, this is something they want to do or maybe also say in this without talking about the context of they are in a cult, which in and of itself is a controlling oftentimes for like we're not I'm sure I'm the producer of this podcast. We're here and say that cults are okay. We're not going to do that. No, but because like, we can say that like there's a choice to go to, like there's a cult to there's a choice to go into a cult, but we're not going to sit here and say that, like people that you know, people in Jonestown, like, had the choice to drink the Kool-Aid and like, you know, it was their choice. Like, no, they were like, manipulated. And so they had a choice to join that cult. Sure. Of course. But we're not talking about joining the cult. We're talking about the people actually in the call and what they go through. Right. So like at this point, even though they're choosing to have sex with whoever they want, like one of the two, they're still in this brainwash situation of this. These are the only people we can have sex with because the outside world is contaminated. Yes, sure. And we have to drink this specific water with Kimmy. Sure. But but yeah, so, so but to just to go back to my point of like her body is not her own in the in the sense of sex and, pregnancy. Sure. And in the, in the first one, Robert's wife and everything with her body is like, it's not in her control. It's in Robert's control. And in the second one, Emma Stone's character literally has her body snatched and turns into another character and then does everything her husband tells her to. So that's a really interesting thing throughout all three is like, yeah. So there's also, you know, we talk about. Right. So Emma Stone's character is she runs into her husband, her ex-husband or whatever husband to her separate separated person. She kind of ran out on, and, you know, she goes over there, he drugs or drink, he sexually assault her the next morning. She has the sort of walk of shame, like a literal walk of shame. She's, like, coming out of the house. It's morning. And then she's. She's found by, omen aka and and and Jesse Plemons character's name. I don't remember. But, because of that, she is now contaminated because she had sex with someone else. And what I wanted to point out is that, you know, when they exile her, there's a lot of the same language. So, again, a different character that Willem Dafoe plays in this movie gives a lot of the same language to her that he does in the first movie. In the first part of this movie, to Jesse Plemons character, he says, you know, you're free to go do what you need to do. You go live your life. You. And so there's this. I wrote down the phrase forcibly set free. Right? Like there are these people who, like, really want to be controlled, who are said, no, no, you go now. Yes. Or in this case, I think there's the idea that there's something better on the other side because or there's some destiny on the other side in the case of this last one, because, Amy, even says or Akka says to to Emma Stone's character when she's at the gate. Maybe you were just meant to be a wife and, and a mother, and that's okay. And she's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I wasn't so sure that theme was there. Like, no, I'm destined for something more. I was to be the chosen one who would find the Chosen One? Yeah. You know, and and so that again, going back to that like, desire thing of like that desire to be something more than what it is that we think that we are, we're going to follow whatever whoever tells us what, whatever they want us to do to, like, get there. Can we move on to technical actors acting? Yeah, sure. How long have we been recording? An hour? 47. Holy shit. So what? We talked about a lot of stuff already. Yes, but. But, all I want to say about the actors is great job, great work. I love these fucking actors and all the things. You both have critiques. No, no, no, I don't actually, I, I, I think it's fascinating that they made this movie that is three little movies and they use the same people. Yes. Even the weird side characters, like the, in the first movie, there's this guy who like, there's that scene where they like, try to, like, or just was trying to sell his collectibles to sports collectibles. There's two guys in it. There's, Joe Alwyn, who's then kind of in the rest of the movie, but that other guy, there's just some other guy who's like a younger black guy. And, I realized in this watch that he's also the, the the husband of Hong Shoe's character or Hong Chow's character. In the second movie, you don't see much of his face. He's like, he's he's he's Jonathan. He's like the he's the other one who survive from the island. You don't really see his face much. Oh, interesting. But I like that has, like, cut off. But I love that this movie decided to use Eve. Like to use everyone as much as possible. Well, and what's so interesting that I kept thinking about is like. Because, like two of them where we have hospital locations and stuff like that. Then I was thinking, are they, you know, film wise, are they do they only have the hospital location for 2 or 3 days? So they're literally perhaps even on the same day switching into different characters, which is like so fucking crazy as an actor and so fun, like, yeah, what a fun this movie feels like. So, you know, again, the movie he made before this is this Poor Things, which is a big budget. Lots of crazy sets. They go literally all over Europe. And we got the budget for this was and this movie feels so much smaller. Yeah, in so many ways. It feels like a filmmaker that like probably is so tired. Like, I can't even imagine poor things like what that production must have been like. It's like all really like, I want to do something as simple, story driven and like, you know, I found a handful of sets and they were just like, let's do use as much land as possible. It's all filmed in, in again in and around New Orleans, which is like a lot cheaper to film in. And, and it's just like it becomes a character almost as well. And so I loved I love the I like the acting all around as, as weird as the acting was. And I'm also very impressed that these handful of actors played very different characters throughout all three of these little vignettes. And I think that actually says a lot, especially Willem Dafoe. Those characters are all very, very different. I think Jesse Plemons characters have a lot of through lines with each other, but like, but he plays them differently. He plays them differently. So subtly different. Emma Stone's characters are all very different. And I don't know, I think it's impressive that all these people within the same film, with a lot of the same kind of themes and stuff, played very different versions of either very different characters or just very different versions of the similar characters. Yeah. Any other thoughts for you in acting? I mean, I think we had already talked about it, but all the acting feels very stilted and like it seems intentional. But like all the side, the side pieces, all the side characters, feel very stilted and try to be. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know. I mean, maybe it is what you're saying, Chris. Where, like, they got a bunch of locals. Or do you know that for a fact? I don't know for a fact, but I mean, that Police Chief does is not an actor. You can tell right away for sure. Neither was like the bartender or the bartender is not an actor. All that subtle stuff seemed very like. You're gonna be fine. Yeah, yeah, but I think that was the point. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But because all the main actors are stilted as well, except for, you know, who felt the most, like, normalized acting. And it was in the third one was, Margaret Qualley. I always say, Polly, you were saying quietly, do we know which one it is when she's sitting in the, diner and she's telling Emma Stone's character about her sister. This is after Emma Stone is already out of the cold. She's so expressive. I think Margaret Qualley is like a beautiful actress. Or like, not you're. She's having. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, she's she's incredible. But but it's really interesting because in this one she is so emotional, expressive on her face, just immediately like her eyes feel like they can water in an instant and like all the things and like I actually think Emma Stone is, is very vulnerable in the same way, like everything reads on her face. But with Yorgos Lanthimos Stone films, Emma Stone has really learned the art of dialing that down so much. And I felt like Margaret Qualley in the last one in that scene in particular, she moves a little. I and I only noticed it because of how stilted all of the characters are, that I only noticed her little movements and things that felt too natural. I gave out too much, like a human outside of this world created, that I was just like, oh, that's that's interesting because, because she's like, she's so expressive. I was like, that's it. We need even less because this film requires less. You mentioned the stilted. How do you how do you feel about it? Do you think it's serve the movie? Do you think it like distracted? Do you what do you feel like that? You know, I will say after the first, I picked it up as intentional in the first story. Like this has to be a choice, like a directorial choice for them to be. Because I can't imagine Yorgos getting that reading to be like, yeah, that's it. Like, really, I feel like it had to be intentional. Yeah, yeah. For it to be like that. Yeah. Like what I'm saying is, like, I can't imagine Yorgos not being intentional. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. With acting like that by the second one, you know, you you're accustomed to it to where it's just like, oh, everyone's just going to not act well, right? Other than the main characters. Right? Because I will say the main characters were all very compelling in whatever role, and especially Willem Dafoe, can we talk about how much of a national treasure? Oh, I love yeah, so excited about him and all the, the the talking about facial expressions. But him as the dad in the second one when he really is Hartnett, you feel his gas. Gosh. Yeah. And when that scene in the driveway when she's saying go in there and talk to him and you just feel it, his heartbreakingly is like, I got I have to I have things to do. I, I can't, I can't do it. I there's, there's another Yorgos Lanthimos, Jesse Plemons and Emma Stone movie coming out in 2025. I don't remember Wilde now. I didn't know he was also in that. I knew, I knew that I knew she made another movie with him. Jesse Plemons, too. Interesting. Well, okay. Yeah. Technical. Yeah. We're on exact angle. It was shot beautifully. I loved the costumes. Can we talk about the music? I mean, it was so simple, yet so effective. So effective. I love, and I was specifically paying attention to the music streaming. I've rewatched this, like, in the first bit specifically. That's what I remember the most. The first. The first movie specifically, almost all the music is this very discordant piano. Me boom boom, and and I think it, like, puts everything off kilter. His character's off kilter. But then when he is in this bar and he can't decide what he wants and he sees Emma Stone, someone is that someone in the bar is playing piano, and it's the first time that a piano is, like, light and happy, and it's like an actual jazz tune. And and the camera is just like looking at, like Emma Stone's like crazy nails and her texting and just her being beautiful. And I loved its use of, like, kind of training us at, and just like, it's really being this other kind of very strong character in this movie. And then in shortly after that, that like, we get these really strong choir bits. I love that there is these choir bits that are mostly saying, no, no, no, I which is hilarious. You know what? I also love what the the opening of this entire movie is a car driving up. It's rm's car driving a sweet thing. So yeah, Sweet Things is playing, but the exact lyrics that Sweet Things are playing are. Some of them want to use you. Some of them want to get used by you. And I was like, like after when I realized that at the end I was like, oh, perfect. Some of them want to abuse you. Some of them want to be abused by. Yeah, exactly. I was like, oh, of course, about this. And then there's a, the song that she, that Emma Stone's character is listening to at the end when she's dancing. And the last one it is now. Yeah. Last movie. Yeah. That's the credits. That's the credit that's been part of what's actually on the cards yet, because then she goes, no, the credits play over her like the, the when she stands thing. Yeah. Yes. But then, but then we go past those credits into her driving the car again. And there are quite a few of those during her dance before she credits on a text that we song, whatever that. Yeah. Well it was it's like a hip hop b techie. Yeah. There were lyrics in that bill that I also clocked in, I can't remember. Oh, I didn't notice those. Okay. Which was really interesting. Just want to shout out your skin for Hendrix. That's who's the music now, when he did the music for Poor Things, and that was his first movie that he scored ever, ever. Which is nuts, because the music, that movie is so fucking cool, so good. And and then he does the music in this movie, too. And the fact that there's a closing credits song that is him singing or whatever, it's like another original song by him too. So I like that. I like that, Yorgos. Like, did I get that right? Yeah. No, Poor Things is literally his first IMDb credit. Like, I love that Wild Love that. I think he got an Oscar nomination for love. I thought it won it. Maybe it maybe it did. They won a lot of like, are the movie of, like, art stuff, like acting, like all the set design, I think. What else? Yeah. Yeah. But like, I think it's really impressive and cool that like, a filmmaker, like Yorgos is like, I don't know how they found him, but it was like, you, you're gonna make this music and we're going to work together. Like. And he didn't or he didn't hew to some, some some company line or like, hire this person or that person. Yeah. Or maybe it's because as I was saying, RMF is like a friend of his from like childhood. The actor who plays. Yeah. Yeah. So like, maybe it's that too. It's like some uncles kid or like you know who is like second who knows like a family friend that is making music. And he's like, I'll kid you. The caught on film, you know? And he did an amazing job. Like the music was so good. And both these movies is great. Yeah, I don't know. I thought the music was great, the camerawork is great. The makeup was good too, because it was so subtle and barely noticeable there. But like, spot on. Even Willem Dafoe was, eyeliner. Oh, I loved his in the third movie. Yeah, in the movie, there is like little details that I just was like, yes. The regret. So I have to say that. Yeah, but like great costumes, like, like I'm a Emma Stone's like, like purple, like maroon pantsuits. And what's actually sort of matched like this are our sweaters. Were it almost to her picture. Yeah. And her car and her car. Yeah. And her lipstick. So good in that, that movie, that that third movie I think was the was the this is the where I, he was the flashiest of them. Like her character is just very over the top in her outfits and her car and that weirdness that she does, bright red Emma Stone hair that like we all know and love. Yeah, I think I've just watched too many cult true crime movies where like a docu series that I'm just like, yeah, I guess that's why I felt so much anger when watching that one at like, the court and like, do you and I have to have a long talk about Midsommar because I often defend the cult in that movie, and you and I might have to. Oh, my God, just go a little. Let's do Midsommar and disagree with it about it. No, that's like one of the few movies, and I'm probably going to get hate for this. One of the few movies that I wanted to walk out of, like, oh yeah, like I was legitimately it was probably after the or it was when, the scene where, in the middle of the night when he walks into the, Noah and like, the cult members right next to the building, and he doesn't know it until, like, the church building. Yeah, yeah. I was just like, I, I am bored out of my mind right now. I remember. Yeah. Oh, see, I've only seen that movie the one time in the theater, and not because I didn't love it. I absolutely loved it. But because it terrified me to my core that I was like, I don't think I can ever watch this. Oh, God, this is this other movie. I said, I need to watch this 17 more more times. I no, no, no, I love it, but I love it because it actually did something to me viscerally, physically, emotionally. I also didn't know what I was going to watch. I just knew it was another one of his films. And I loved hereditary, and I wasn't really I didn't think that it's great. I love and I like didn't think that it was necessarily a horror film, and it was like a Sunday afternoon and I'm strolling through Los Feliz and I was playing at the Los Feliz three, and I was like, oh, screw it, I'll just go see a movie by myself. So I sit through that movie by myself first of all, I, what is her name? Florence. Thank you, Florence Pugh. I had never seen her before. And in that movie, she, like, she looks very much. Or I kept thinking she looked like my sister. Or like she could possibly be. Yeah, like a sister of mine or a cousin of mine. Just like a family member of some type. So I was also having this very, like, I just, I was relating to her on a whole other level because she felt like a family member of mine. It was bizarre, I think. Oh, I just realized I gave you a New Orleans Cup for a movie that was shot in New Orleans. Yeah, I was just reading that. Yeah. So the the famous artist, if we ever do that. Well. And street signs. Yeah. We'll talk we'll talk about Midsommar or Bo is afraid some other time. Oh, Poe is afraid we'll we'll table it for now, isn't it? Midsommar? I don't know. Okay. I've heard Midsommar. Midsommar. That. Yeah. Have you? Oh, I'm calling it Midsommar. I'm going to stick with that. I think it was Ari. I was in school at the time, and all of the film grad school students. Right? Oh, there's the best movie ever, And I think that just, like, read you really you did that are the exact same way twice. It made me think that you were like the the voice that they used to record Halloween. Things that you push the button of, and then they go, and that wraps up that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Listeners, viewers, if you're still with us, with us. Thank you. Really, really appreciate it. Chris, thank you so much for thank you guys coming on board today for letting me talk for two hours. Thanks everyone. Is there is there anything that you would like to plug? You don't have to. I mean, I know that your inbox is going to be crazy with all the scripts that are going to become. I'm just saying, send me everything. Everybody, I mean, all. Let's make some movies. Okay, if you want to, chat with any of, well, kind, I, you could find us on all social media at good bad underscore. Bad good. You can find me on all social media at Travis underscore Orozco. You can find chiap at Thailand on my on Instagram. And you can find me at CAA, Register at, on Instagram and other stuff. Probably tear jester or Jester. And with that, until next time when we watch another movie. Good bad, bad good is an ex nihilo production. Original theme music done by Jen Star Hacker. Find her at hacker Sound music.com. Opinions expressed are solely that of the speaker and do not necessarily reflect the views of any entities they represent. Or.